Draft2digital Blog Getting Law Enforcement right in your writing, with Patrick O'Donnell // Self Publishing Insiders // EP039

Episode SummaryCops, FBI, crime scenes-these have been popular subjects of fiction since the beginning. But getting the details right about law enforcement has become ever more essential.Episode NotesPatrick O'Donnell is a very recently retired police sergeant who is also a published author and technical advisor for writers and screenwriters. His focus is on writing and helping authors get their facts straight regarding police procedure. Find more about Patrick and his work at: Website:: www.copsandwriters.comFacebook:: https://www.facebook.com/groups/copsandwriters//Draft2Digital is where you start your Indie Author Career//Looking for your path to self-publishing success? Draft2Digital is the leading ebook publisher and distributor. We'll convert your manuscript, distribute it online, and support you the whole way, and we won't charge you a dime. We take a cut of royalties on each sale you make through us, so we only make money when you make money!• Get started: https://Draft2Digital.comGet insider info on indie author success from our blog.• Visit: https://Draft2Digital.com/blogTune in to our monthly livestreams and ask us anything!• D2D Live: https://D2DLive.comPromote your books with our Universal Book Links!• Books2Read: https://books2read.com//Get ahead of the Self-Publishing game with our Amazing Partners//Findaway Voices || Find a narrator, produce your audiobook, and distribute it to retailers worldwide, including Audible.com and Apple Books.• http://findawayvoices.com/d2dReedsy || Assemble your team of publishing professionals! Find editors, cover designers, marketing experts, ghostwriters and more.• https://reedsy.comBookBrush || Build graphics and video that help you market and promote your books.• https://bookbrush.com/d2d-mockups///Join the D2D Community Online//Facebook || https://facebook.com/draft2digitalTwitter || https://twitter.com/draft2digitalTranscriptSUMMARY KEYWORDScops, book, police officer, people, detective, author, fbi, writers, officer, writing, homicide, fiction, podcast, department, human beings, bit, retired, years, literally, coupleKevin Tumlinson00:04Well hello, everybody. Thank you for tuning in. We've rebranded. We're officially now Self-Publishing Insiders. And if you haven't checked out the podcast yet, go over to D2Dlive.com. We're now doing a podcast and a YouTube channel, so check us out there. Sorry if I sound a little rushed. We had some technical difficulties just before the broadcast. So I'm hoping everything's working okay now. But I'd like to introduce my good friend Patrick O'Donnell. He's the author of, Cops and Writers is the title of the book, correct, Patrick? I want to make sure I get that right. Patrick O'Donnell 00:40You are correct, sir.Kevin Tumlinson00:41[inaudible]Patrick O'Donnell 00:43Yeah, I can hear you. Thank you very much for having me. It's an honor and a privilege. And I just wanted to, before everything else, I just want to let you know that I have to thank you again. Because you were, the Wordslinger podcast was the first podcast I was ever a guest on.Kevin Tumlinson01:02Oh okay, good. Patrick O'Donnell 01:03You know, I just reached out to you. And I'm like, hey, I'm writing this book. I'm gonna start this business, you know, blah, blah, blah. And you were more than welcoming. And you really helped out. And I really, really appreciate that, because nobody knew me from Adam.Kevin Tumlinson01:20Yeah, well, that's part of the job description, man. I've got to help introduce people to useful contributors out there. And you started life ... And I think we're on a bit of a delay, so I apologize if I talk over you every now and then. We'll just try to work around it. But you actually started life as a police officer, correct? Patrick O'Donnell 01:44I did, in my former life. I started as a police officer in ... January 16, 1995, was my first day at the police academy. And I retired February 21 of this year. So I did my long drive. And a little bit more.Kevin Tumlinson02:02That's quite a long career.Patrick O'Donnell 02:04Most department, you can retire around the 20 to 30 year mark. There are some departments that let you retire 20 around years, but you take more of a diminished pension. So you know, you're not maximizing your pension. 25 kind of seems like the golden number for that. So that's very common. Kevin Tumlinson02:25Yeah. So you are probably one of the more qualified people to write a book on this particular topic. I still remember you reaching out to me. We chatted on the phone a couple of times about, you know, just sort of the plan. You were still a police officer at that time. And you were talking about this book, you were working on this book. So what was kind of the inspiration for you to start this?Patrick O'Donnell 02:52Well, it's not the first book that I wrote. I already published four other books that were either nonfiction or fiction. And I was working on a sequel to a post-apocalyptic book. I like post-apocalyptic fiction. And I started putting myself out there in author groups, going to conferences, and people are always diverting back to "Hey, you know what, I've got this character. He's a police officer, you know, she's a detective. Does this sound plausible? This scenario?" And I'm like, yeah, yes, no, this is how it would actually work out. And I really enjoyed helping people. And then more and more people started reaching out to me. I remember the First 20 Books conference, somebody came up to me, we were at that little, I think it's called the [inaudible] bar, kind of in the middle of the jungle that's there. And she said, you know, could you look at my manuscript, you know, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, I guess? And she said, "Well, how much are you gonna charge me?" And I'm like, I don't even know. I've never done this before. But then, you know, more than one person was like, you should really write a book. There's nothing out there quite like it. And if there is, it's very old and outdated. So, I guess I went to that default of, you write what you know about. I'm considered an expert when I'm testifying on the stand. So, and I've got, I was lucky enough to be a police officer in a very busy city, where I've seen a lot of stuff. Kevin Tumlinson04:25Yeah. Now, yeah, that I mean, it's interesting. I rarely talk to ... I talk to experts all the time, but they they rarely get like an official expert credit. So that's pretty handy. Patrick O'Donnell 04:42Yeah, it works out pretty good. I started a Facebook group called Cops and Writers. And that was more or less to dip my toes in the water and see if there was interest. I think my editor was my first person in my group. I'm like, hey, join the group, okay? I want to see if this works or not. She's like, all right. So I had her join. And then before I know it, you know, it's been a little over a year, and I've got close to 2200 members, somewhere in that ballpark.Kevin Tumlinson05:10It's grown quite a bit.Patrick O'Donnell 05:13It has, and I'm really thankful for that. And I have a really good bunch of people, because there's other police officers, forensic people, I have a couple of people that are death investigators, I have a kind of a treasure trove of police resources, and a lot of authors that just have, okay, I'm stuck on this one line. How would I say this? Or how would this gun work? Or is this realistic? And, you know, it's not always me. I'm the administrator, I do have backup, but he's busy because he's a full-time detective. So it takes up a lot of my time. But it works. It works good. Kevin Tumlinson05:53Yeah, I'm a member of that group. And I don't tend to post questions because most of the time, the questions I have get answered sort of vicariously. Like, other people will ask something similar to what I'm looking for, so. One of the things, okay, so one of the things I'm always interested in is like, what is it that people get wrong most often when it comes to writing about cops? Patrick O'Donnell 06:23Um, there's a multitude of things. There's a lot of misinformation out there about police. There's a lot of, like I said, misinformation and misconceptions about what police officers do, who they are. Um, I guess one of the biggest things I see is, there's the technical side, and then there's the human side. With the human side, some of the most ... the biggest errors that I see is they go too extreme from one end to the other. Either your character is a stoic detective that doesn't show any emotion ever, never cracks a joke. Kind of like the Joe Friday, you know, just you know, real stone face, you know, blah blah, and that's not true. Or you have the wild rogue detective that breaks all the rules and, you know, his captain's always yelling at him. And, you know, he's going out every night drinkin and boozin and doing this, that and the other thing that he shouldn't be doing, but at the end, he always catches the bad guy. And that's not true. You know, they're human beings. They have families. They like dogs, they've got hobbies, they do other stuff, other than police stuff. I mean, like, look at me, I was a cop for 25 years. And I got into indie self-publishing. And I love that community. And it's a real good bunch of people. And I never would have discovered that if I never kind of ventured out of my comfort zone. But I'm not the only police officer that does that. So that's like on the human side. And then, you know, cops make mistakes. Cops, you know, can have drinking problems. They can have pain pill problems, they can, divorce is rampant in law enforcement. PTSD is a very serious issue. You know, I remember one time I was giving roll call to my cops. I was a sergeant. One morning, one copper looks up at me says "Sarge, how many dead babies is enough?" And I'm like, "Dude, we got to talk."Kevin Tumlinson 08:28Wow, that's hard.Patrick O'Donnell 08:30Yeah, it is. Just the things that you see and you go through. And it's not just you, your family go